tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post8979796286666396790..comments2023-08-05T09:34:00.699-07:00Comments on I SEE LEAD PEOPLE: Alter-Nations - Kingdom of Hawaii Part 2Eli Arndthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10445801567500822187noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-88181406540171869332009-04-21T14:56:00.000-07:002009-04-21T14:56:00.000-07:00I have decided that is the way to go. J. had sugge...I have decided that is the way to go. J. had suggested an earlier encounter with Spanish sailors and then I found an actual historical note noting just that very thing in 1627.<br /><br />The big thing now is to figure out how Hawaii can remain Hawaiian and not turn into a westernized/christianized nation. Nothing against Christianity, but it was so influencial in the shaping of Hawaii's historical past that I feel it would need to have been lessened or done away with for Hawaii to maintain more of its own cultural indentity.<br /><br />I am thinking that perhaps an uprising or even a civil war between christianized hawaiians and traditionalists might be the way to go.<br /><br />-EliEli Arndthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10445801567500822187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-47532120523099006472009-04-21T14:40:00.000-07:002009-04-21T14:40:00.000-07:00Here is link to book that talks about the epidemic...Here is link to book that talks about the epidemics in Hawaii. The idea of having them hit earlier might be the way to go as it reads like it got really rough in Hawaii.<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=uGCv2aG5z34C&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=hawaiian+epidemics&source=bl&ots=CIsaL4oaOD&sig=dfv818C_am18PbwGUYa6GuuxIPw&hl=en&ei=_DruSfD3LoawNLSwiPIP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA133,M1larskylernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-32014087530594115872009-04-20T20:57:00.000-07:002009-04-20T20:57:00.000-07:00And Mr. Womack with the save!
That is a great ide...And Mr. Womack with the save!<br /><br />That is a great idea and completely plausible. We could even have it be an unnamed vessel that never returns or something. Heck, we could get really creative and have the Hawaiians get gunpowder tech earlier.<br /><br />Lots of good ideas.<br /><br />-EliEli Arndthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10445801567500822187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-76786427105909059142009-04-20T20:49:00.000-07:002009-04-20T20:49:00.000-07:00Have the epidemics hit earlier. Say, a Spanish exp...Have the epidemics hit earlier. Say, a Spanish expedition in the 1500s led by Andrés de Urdaneta. They stray into the islands, infect a bunch of people, mark the locations incorrectly (beastly inaccurate instruments, what!), and sail away.<br /><br />This gives the locals exposure to the diseases and time to recover somewhat from a serious plague before ol' James Cook shows up in the 1770s. So, the 1800s military is not decimated by virgin field epidemics.J Womack, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14400879353685357966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-1161408188443301632009-04-17T23:54:00.000-07:002009-04-17T23:54:00.000-07:00Devon,
Thanks for the input. The point you make h...Devon,<br /><br />Thanks for the input. The point you make here is a very valid one and does seem to have been something that Hawaii struggled with through its whole history and to the this day if you consider how little of Hawaii is actually owned by Hawaiians.<br /><br />If Hawaii would have been able to keep it huge military that had been built up under Kamehameha I under the warlord style of government, I think they would have been in a better position to fend off European exploitation.<br /><br />This military was torn down by the epidemics that ravaged the native population. This is a detail that is hard to get around.<br /><br />-EliEli Arndthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10445801567500822187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3441824499938029576.post-41247338556590074282009-04-17T17:41:00.000-07:002009-04-17T17:41:00.000-07:00I don't know how helpful this will be but I will t...I don't know how helpful this will be but I will throw it out as food for thought.<br /><br />Many small to medium sized countries in the past were on the road to being vibrant and thriving economies, but the one thing that often lead them off track was American and European colonialism. I'm not just talking about the out right taking of a country, but also the aggressive greed driven trade policies of the larger nations. The larger countries often secured rights to the resources of smaller nations but did not really return much to the smaller nations. Thus the small countries never got a real chance to make it big.<br /><br />A modern case today is coffee. American companies, not all, try pay extremely low prices for the beans instead of a real world fair price. Look to any South American coffee producing nations to see what effect that has had.<br /><br />Now I am not a Hawaiian expert but my guess is that Hawaii probably fell victim to this as well in the past. So for Hawaii to be a power in a VSF setting I think they would have to be very business savvy and have a good military to protect what is theirs. <br /><br />Devonlarskylernoreply@blogger.com